opinion for the future of E-HAO

[Nguyễn Hoài Anh (Jim)]

Can you please explain all over again what are you telling us TTA? What do you want us to do, focus on translating all the materials in HAO? Is that what you want?
Because on the first 2 post what you said means that E-HAO has to do this, can't do that.... and then on this last post you said it's just your suggestion, we (maybe just Thuy what ever) don't have to care . I am really confused ). One thing is that I am a new member, so I am not really sure on what we "have to do". If HAO say we have to do whatever you said above, I am willing to follow the order (but that would be kind of hard and may I say, terrible decision).

 

[Trần Tuấn Anh (Ipsen)]

:biggrin: What I meant by "mere suggestion" was about her dotty habit

On the principle of E-HAO, I still keep my opinion of a translating group.

 

[Hoàng Chi Mai (lablugirl)]

Oh my oh my! Firstly, I apologize for my mistake using v instead of adj.
Regarding the club/ring/something of that sort, will you feel comfortable if some day people of an imaginary Club "Francaise" discuss something seeming really interesting to you, but you just cannot join them since they strictly use French and refuse having a Vietnamese/English translation for you to read?

Well now, this isn't fair You know E-HAO is anything but an exclusive club for English-speakers. In fact, as far as I can tell, the major part of HAO's English site does mirror the Vietnamese version. The thing is, like Thuy said, while our News and Activities sections are supposed to follow the main site, the Writing section is completely independent. You want this to change. And maybe you're right, maybe it would be unfair to non-English-speakers that they are unable to appreciate good writing (and believe me, our stuff is good ) simply because it is in English. Well, supposing we follow through with your suggestion and have our editors post only translations of writing on the main site. In my opinion, this is why it won't work:

1) We don't have, and will probably never find enough editors of that caliber. Translating writing is not like translating news articles and documents. Writing is (can I just say it?) art, and a lot of it is so subjective that it would just be impossible to convey ideas into another language if you don't have a certain amount of skill. Believe me, I have tried translating English novels into Vietnamese and vice versa, and the reason why the majority of those translations will never see the light of day is because they more often then not turn out to be crap. The Vietnamese materials on the main page are great, and they probably deserve to be translated, but they also need to be translated properly, and this is something that is currently beyond our resource.

2) We will lose our E-HAO Writing contributors. That's right: zip, there they go. This is because by turning E-HAO into a translating group, we pretty much eliminate the duty of contributors. If you think it's hard to make members send in their stuff now, try telling them that if they want to contibute to E-HAO, they'll have to either shape up their translating skill or get something posted on the main page. Exodus in the making, if you ask me )

3) Above all, I don't see how translating the main page into Vietnamese will help those who want to improve their English. Those who will benefit from this are people who don't understand Vietnamese yet want to learn about HAO, and let's face it, this is not the majority. Besides, if our goal were to reach such people, then Thuy's idea of creating an independently developing E-HAO with original materials (while of course, remaining connected to the main site) would work much better in my opinion. If E-HAO were a translating group, the ones doing most of the work will be the editors, and no matter how many we recruit, it won't change anything because the editors aren't the ones looking to improve their English. At the same time, our wonderful contributors lose the incentive to get creative. So it comes down to this: what helps people improve their English more, being encouraged to write and express their ideas in English, or having the use of an English page that is nothing but a translated version of the Vietnamese one?

To Diệu Hương: the errors in the writing section are NOT your fault. You are probably the hardest worker in our department. I feel really guilty about always shirking my responsibility. I dunno if I can help you herd the contributors (they sound like a tough crowd 8-} ), but if stuff goes into the to-be-edited box, I'll get to them from now on :x

 

[Trần Tuấn Anh (Ipsen)]

Should the post be that long?

Apparently, I haven't clearly stated what I truly want to say. Maybe, as my English is not as good :biggrin: I hope one more try wouldn't harm something: "It is the meaning of a sentence that is important, not the appearance"

I do not oppose the Writing section, as its only objective is to aid people's skills at English.

I protest against sections in which the expression of thoughts (discussions on blah things) is more important than the correction of writing skills.

My hope it is clearer to you :biggrin:

 

[Hoàng Chi Mai (lablugirl)]

Sorry, I do tend to ramble. Rest assured this is how I always write. This is why my advisors growl in frustration whenever I send them my college essays )

I protest against sections in which the expression of thoughts (discussions on blah things) is more important than the correction of writing skills.

I haven't noticed any such section within E-HAO (maybe that's 'cause I'm lazy/fixated in the writing dep.). Maybe you're talking about the EC instead?

Actually, I've got another gripe with you. I kinda get it that you want to have people's English corrected in discussions, but wouldn't that be kind of annoying? I love to hear comments on my ideas on a good day, but being chastised for my grammar/spelling/whatever on a message board is freaky. It would turn most people off is what I think : ;

 

[Nguyễn Đức Long (Louis2)]

sorry to ask this, might not an in-day question, can i be explain about E-HAO reason, goal and future destination? i was really coming through what Chi Mai wrote for the questions unanswered above, but still didn't realize what are we doing in E-HAO.
One time apologized cause i need to know and walk-through EHAO before apply the contributor/collaborator, but i spent time to search for EHAO generals in HAO forums, but nothing informations there. Thx a lot for the answer.

to Phước : Your questions about a globalizism EHAO such impossible job. Though i didn't know EHAO, but my opinion claim me for such an easy word : E-HAO is English version HAO.
For the time EHAO being run, it give outsider a most very general and understandable way of about HAO, besides, any English-speaker HAO's member can post English within everywhere in HAO's forums. So now, i dont recognize any advice,advantages or creativity for y's idea, for such reasons, i advise u just to stay "loud-silence" til you know and contributed smthin for EHAO. Thx
Peace 'n Love

edit : Sorry for to be rude.

 

[Trần Thiên Phước (liveforadream)]

first of all, we have different ideas of how to do things, argue more about it...think it'll help? I came to discuss things, not quarreling.

second of all, if u have ideas, post them so people can consider wat u want to do in order to help out.

thirdly, it was my idea, want to take that, i'll help...don't want to, fine with me...it's not like this'll get me anything, i just did 'cuz i wanted to help out.

fourthly, if u wanna help out with ur idea, do it, u wouldn't help anything out by sitting here arguing, and protesting,there's always room for co-operation, u can help to create a grammar correcting room, the others can create their discussing rooms, or watever they want to create; why wasting time quareling about this. We really can cooperate wuth each other for the future of this EHAO. We shouldn't assume wat's best for others, let's they decide wat's best for them, wat they want to do...by doing that, we should present them with various choices, let's they choose wat they want. It's called democracy.

 

[Nguyễn Vân Mai (nvanmai)]

Hi guys,

First of all, we - E-HAO Group, would like to thank all of you for contributing ideas for the “future of E-HAO”

Secondly, we would like to confirm that we never deny E-HAO is a part of HAO (in fact, a very important part). E-HAO is here to work for the sake of HAO, to introduce HAO to friends all over the world by English. E-HAO is also a place for our members to discuss and to share ideas / experiences (about learning English, living and studying abroad, etc. English Club is our official forum so far though we did not really make full use of it). E-HAO members can also contribute ideas of how to present HAO in a best way.

However, please don’t mistake this one: Although E-HAO is not an independent group or anything like that; we work independently from other groups in HAO. We develop ourselves and we work our own way to present HAO in the way we think is best for HAO.

E-HAO was founded more than a year ago. The main reason of lacking collaborators has stopped E-HAO from working for quite a long time. Since 10/2004, some enthusiastic E-HAO senior members have gathered together and tried our best to re-develop E-HAO. Starting from 4, 5 members (since 10/2004), we now have about 25 and regularly update E-HAO home page.

It is not surprising that not many people know about E-HAO since we are just a small group working in the “hidden place”. Although we do have a lot of plans and projects to develop E-HAO in the future, we can’t do it alone. We need more young, enthusiastic and creative members to put these ideas into reality. However, as we think carefully, only by recruiting quality people can E-HAO be developed stronger than before. Don’t get us wrong what we meant by quality people, we are not asking you to have perfect English to join us cause E-HAO is also a place for you to learn and practise your English. What we meant here is someone who knows how to take responsibility for what they are doing and always tries their best to fulfil it.

Coming back to the main point of this topic, we do appreciate all opinion you have given here. We have also learnt that there is no right and no wrong answer; it’s just how you are going to justify it. Therefore E-HAO Development Team has studied all suggestions given here as well as given elsewhere (emails, etc) carefully since the last few weeks. Any issue addressed to us will be analysed for advantages and disadvantages before any decision is made.

One big step in E-HAO development process is that we are going to open a new box in HAO forum very soon (aiming for 8/2), so that more HAO members can join as well as contribute to E-HAO. We think there is nothing to hide about that plan since it was approved by HAO Board of Management; hence the announcement of that opening opportunity will be posted below for your interest. Sorry for the post in Vietnamese because it was for the purpose of submitting to HAO BoM (I myself could not find any time to translate it).

Lastly, there is one thing we want to say personally. We are also human so we made mistakes sometimes. And E-HAO is only one year old with a lot of up and down periods so negligence is unavoidable (last 3 months was seen as a big success of E-HAO so far, therefore we have decided to present ourselves to HAO). But we do know how to listen and correct mistakes. Instead of laughing at our grammar and spelling errors, tell us how to fix it or join our campaign to “Clean-up E-HAO homepage” (1). Instead of judging about the way E-HAO is working, give us a hand to develop E-HAO better. From now on until the opening day of E-HAO Official Forum, we still have mountains of work to do (such as writing announcements, marketing ourselves somehow so that everyone will pay attention to our box, etc). So we are still looking forwards to your suggestions of how to have an impressive opening day for E-HAO. Any suggestion can be posted here or send to ehao@hn-ams.org. We would really appreciate that.

E-HAO Group

(1) Due to some advices that E-HAO homepage had mistakes in some articles, we are carrying out the Campaign called “Clean-up E-HAO homepage”. The purpose of this campaign is to check and correct any grammar, spelling, formatting errors in E-HAO homepage. This needed to be done by 1[sup]st[/sup] February so that all other activities in E-HAO can be carried out as normal. With a limited number of editors in E-HAO, we would be very happy if anyone can join us to do the editing job. PM me or Thủy for details.

 

[Nguyễn Vân Mai (nvanmai)]

Here is the announcement about the opening of new E-HAO box. Anyone who is interested in translating this one is more than welcome since we can post it in HAO-News section.

Thông báo 1: Thành lập E-HAO box ngoài forum chính thức của HAO

Dự định vào ngày 8/2, E-HAO sẽ mở thêm 1 box ngoài diễn đàn chính của HAO, box sẽ được đặt trong "Phòng Hoạt Động".

Mục đích:

+ Để thu hút thêm CTV mới và sự đóng góp bài viết cho các box trên E-HAO của những thành viên HAO yêu thích Tiếng Anh
+ Thuận lợi cho việc tổ chức các cuộc thi viết, tìm hiểu bằng Tiếng Anh cho toàn thể thành viên HAO
+ Thuận lợi cho sự quản lý CTV mới của Ban điều hành E-HAO (sẽ có 1 số thay đổi trong chức năng của CTV mới, xem Thông báo 3)

Chức năng:

+ Mở rộng hoạt động của E-HAO ngoài diễn đàn, nhằm nâng cao số lượng đọc giả đến với E-HAO
+ Thành viên ngoài diễn đàn trực tiếp tham gia thảo luận góp ý kiến phát triển E-HAO (kô chỉ riêng E-HAO members)

Cơ cấu:

Box E-HAO ngoài forum trước mắt sẽ bao gồm 4 sub-boxes:
+ Sub-Box 1: News - Constribution Box: dành cho CTV post bài và những tin tức chọn lọc khác do các thành viên HAO đóng góp
+ Sub-Box 2: Writing - Constribution Box: để thành viên đóng góp những bài viết chọn lọc cho E-HAO
+ Sub-Box 3: Let's Interview: sẽ dành cho CTV của Who is Who thực hiện những bài phỏng vấn bạn bè quốc tế, etc.
+ Sub-Box 4: Hộp thư góp ý: dành cho các thành viên tham gia góp ý kiến cho sự phát triển của E-HAO

Ngoài ra box chính của E-HAO sẽ dành cho các thành viên tham gia thảo luận những vấn đề xung quanh E-HAO và để post những thông báo, cập nhật tin tức về E-HAO.

Nhiệm vụ:
+ Box E-HAO ngoài diễn đàn sẽ do 6 mods quản lý:
- NPTK quản lý chung
- Thủy phụ trách Hộp thư góp ý
- Hiền phụ trách main box
- 3 mods cho 3 sub-boxes còn lại
+ Nhiệm vụ của 3 mods của 3 sub-box News - Constribution Box, Writing - Constribution Box và Let's Interview là chọn lọc những bài viết hay, có hiệu quả từ box ngoài diễn đàn post vào E-HAO box của BDH, các editors sẽ chỉ edit những bài đã được chọn lọc.
+ Box E-HAO của BDH sẽ vẫn hoạt động như bình thường, các editors chỉ làm việc trong box này, và ban IT sẽ chỉ đăng lên trang chủ những bài đã được kiểm tra từ box này.

Please note: "E-HAO box của BDH" is our existing box in HAO's "hidden place"

 

[Nguyễn Diệu Hương (dieuhautotbung)]

Well now, this isn't fair You know E-HAO is anything but an exclusive club for English-speakers. In fact, as far as I can tell, the major part of HAO's English site does mirror the Vietnamese version. The thing is, like Thuy said, while our News and Activities sections are supposed to follow the main site, the Writing section is completely independent. You want this to change. And maybe you're right, maybe it would be unfair to non-English-speakers that they are unable to appreciate good writing (and believe me, our stuff is good ) simply because it is in English. Well, supposing we follow through with your suggestion and have our editors post only translations of writing on the main site. In my opinion, this is why it won't work:

1) We don't have, and will probably never find enough editors of that caliber. Translating writing is not like translating news articles and documents. Writing is (can I just say it?) art, and a lot of it is so subjective that it would just be impossible to convey ideas into another language if you don't have a certain amount of skill. Believe me, I have tried translating English novels into Vietnamese and vice versa, and the reason why the majority of those translations will never see the light of day is because they more often then not turn out to be crap. The Vietnamese materials on the main page are great, and they probably deserve to be translated, but they also need to be translated properly, and this is something that is currently beyond our resource.

2) We will lose our E-HAO Writing contributors. That's right: zip, there they go. This is because by turning E-HAO into a translating group, we pretty much eliminate the duty of contributors. If you think it's hard to make members send in their stuff now, try telling them that if they want to contibute to E-HAO, they'll have to either shape up their translating skill or get something posted on the main page. Exodus in the making, if you ask me )

To Diệu Hương: I dunno if I can help you herd the contributors (they sound like a tough crowd 8-} ), but if stuff goes into the to-be-edited box, I'll get to them from now on :x

Chi Mai, YOU ROCK!!


To chị Vân Mai: The idea of a writing contest (similar to "HAO bốn mắt.." but at a smaller scale) is great! Do u want me to write a detail plan for that? ;

 

[Ngọ Hồng Vũ (redbreast)]

yeah, a writing contest sounds wonderful. But the difficulty is to find an appropriate topic that can attract people's attention and participants.

how about telling a childhood story or kind of?