Should we use English this way?

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

I will start this new topic

Some people can learn English naturally and find it easy to master this language. They even feel like using English instead of their mother tongue as in some cases Vietnamese language has no equivalent for such words or it is more convenient to do so. English words and expressions just cross their minds and come out unintentionally. I sometimes cannot resist the temptation of using succinct and interesting English words.

However, on writing in Vietnamese I think we should not put some English in between. It seems to me that a post spotted with English words and expressions implies a person who is not good at their own mother tongue.

 

[Phạm Thị Hồng Nhung (nhungph)]

It seems to me that a post spotted with English words and expressions implies a person who is not good at their own mother tongue.

While this is probably true in my particular case T_T , I think it would be premature to conclude that 'occasional use of English words' is automatically equivalent to 'bad command of mother tongue'. There ARE concepts that need extra long phrases to explain in Vietnamese, plainly because there is no one word to describe them precisely.

For (a really bad) example, I find it impossible to sum up the meaning of the word 'apply', as in 'apply to a US university' in several Vietnamese words. Why? Because we don't 'apply' to institutions here in Vietnam, we take entrance exams. Words like 'đăng kí', 'xin', 'thi' .. can't 'capture' all the different procedures of applying. Now you can certainly imagine that it is very inconvenient to explain half of the US education system in Vietnamese instead of using the word 'apply'.

It is also quite unecessary if the word is universally understood - among the people you talk/write to that is. As long as there isn't a short Vietnamese translation for a word, I will continue to use its English version (in informal situations, of course)!

 

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

Haha there only two of us in this forum, how sad...
Anyway, I find our discussion interesting as both of us seem to argue but actually not. In my first post I wrote:They even feel like using English instead of their mother tongue as in some cases Vietnamese language has no equivalent for such words or it is more convenient to do so. I don't agree with using English in Vietnamese writing but also compromise with this act if we don't have equivalents . And you said it's true in your case but wrong in most others'.

Is there anyone here? Raise your voice, plz.

 

[Tran Thu Hang (Tran Thu Hang)]

ok, it’s me. I think mixing some English words within Vietnamese sentences should be applied properly. In most informal cases, esp. in writing to friends and peers, I guess it is absolutely acceptable. However, using English words when VNese ones should have been used (like when you’re talking to ppl who are not very good at English) will definitely leave you being talked of as pompous, arrogant, etc. .
in my own case, I find using some English words instead of VNese one is extremely helpful in our Literature class – you need to take notes as fast as possible, right? Sometimes I just can not think of the should-have-been-used VNese words, but its English equivalent just inexplicably pops up. Ah, what’s more is that in some “sensitive” cases, using an English words seems to lessen the ridiculous, “chuoi” or “sen” shades of meaning that the VNese ones carry, esp. in those romance related cases, don’t you agree, mod?

 

[Phạm Thị Hồng Nhung (nhungph)]

To Linh: My friend, you misunderstood! You said:

.. on writing in Vietnamese I think we should not put some English in between. It seems to me that a post spotted with English words and expressions implies a person who is not good at their own mother tongue.

I, in return, wrote that we should not jump to conclusions about a person's language proficiency on the basis of his or her writing. These two opinions are entirely different, no?

To Hang: I know exactly what you mean. When writing for myself (ie. taking notes in class, writing diary entries,..) I tend to use many English/German/Chinese words and even mathematic expressions to save time (to keep up w/ the teacher's lecture..). I realize that only I myself can decode what was written, but that is acceptable as it is just intended for my own use.

The problem that Hang raised - that people might think of you as arrogant, bragging,.. if you use English words in a foreign environment such as on the other boards of this forum - is very tiresome. I myself have been reminded several times of people's prejudice, and that I should take care not to offend them. As an English-specialized student, I find myself even more subjected to these biases. And even though many use English in their posts, I find myself fighting not to use (m)any to avoid being called showing off. Sigh,..

 

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

To Linh: My friend, you misunderstood! You said:
Trích dẫn từ bài của: Vũ Đàm Linh
.. on writing in Vietnamese I think we should not put some English in between. It seems to me that a post spotted with English words and expressions implies a person who is not good at their own mother tongue.
I, in return, wrote that we should not jump to conclusions about a person's language proficiency on the basis of his or her writing. These two opinions are entirely different, no?

Yeah, but you use your case as an example for those who are so bad at their mother tongue that they have to use foreign language instead.

I still keep my opinion that if anyone use ( too much) English in their Vietnamese writing, they should 're-learn' their mother tongue. As for the word 'apply', we can use the Vietnamese word: 'nộp đơn', which can capture (as you wrote) the applying procedure into a US university/college.

 

[Đặng Hiền Hòa (Vịt)]

Awwww what if I canT help it? The englIsh words just flOw out when I try ta write sumtinz...even when I'm thinkin...rE-learn vietnamese?:lol:
when I sAw this topic I thought it wAs about usin bad english!

 

[Bùi Thành Trung (Trung can dong)]

Unbelieveable! I dont believe that ppl who are bad at their mother tongue can master a foreign language. That's why foreign languages are called second, third,... By the way, I really hate ppl mixing up English and Vietnamese , "you" "you" "me" "me", when they're talking to me. In my point of view, it's bulls..t, it really freaks me out sometimes. Either pure Vietnamese or English only is OK. Personally, I prefer speaking Vietnamese with VNese friends.
I've been studying in English speaking countries for 4 years. I try to think in English when I'm studying. But I still think and speak in VNese while I'm talking with VN friends. Maybe my English is not so good but I'm happy that I dont forget my mother-tongue.

 

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

Love to see such an patriot like Mr. Trung. I couldn't agree with you more

 

[Phạm Thị Hồng Nhung (nhungph)]

Ah, you purists! ; ) I don't personally know anyone who uses 'you' + 'me' in speech, but often encounter this in online forums. I think it can sometimes be very useful, esp. when you don't know how to address someone. Finding the right form of address in Vietnamese is difficult if you don't know the other person's age or sex. Using 'you' + 'me' in these cases will help you avoid awkward talk or possibly offending people. Also, I imagine that 'you' + 'me' -ing will help people switch from 'mày' + 'tao' to 'bạn' + 'tôi' to 'anh' + 'em' more easily ^_^

So, please be somewhat relaxed about all this. It's just a way to get ideas across. Now, the exchange of thoughts is what's important, no?

 

[Lê Diệu Linh (dieulinhle)]

Hah, such a nice topic . Of course there are guys who try to use big words for fear that other may not be fully aware of their language skills. But there are also guys to whom occasional use of that language is actually just a matter of habit, especially in case they have taken that language for a long time.
Frankly I think we can easily differentiate between beginners who try to impress and professionals who just can't help uttering some nếcessary idoms to fully convey their ideas.
From another angle, not only Vietnamese, but also other languages are experiencing a period of integration. That blend in cultures results in a whole lot of new words and phrases that sound exotic to each culture. The fact that we have to adopt certain idioms doesn't simply mean that we use that language because it is new and tongue-twisting. It also means that we are receiving new conceptions, news ideas which may not yet be available in our country. Even the English also adopted quite a few French words like " nouveaux richés ", tête à tête", " debut"....There are also terminologies that simply cannot be translated into Vietnamese.
So I think as long as you don't mean to use those words just to sound important, the mixture of a foreign language and your mother tongue is sometimes just a technical matter.

 

[Đặng Hiền Hòa (Vịt)]

By the way, I really hate ppl mixing up English and Vietnamese , "you" "you" "me" "me", when they're talking to me. In my point of view, it's bulls..t, it really freaks me out sometimes. Either pure Vietnamese or English only is OK. Personally, I prefer speaking Vietnamese with VNese friends.

OK, that's true. I agree. Pure english.

Using 'you' + 'me' in these cases will help you avoid awkward talk or possibly offending people.

Infact I think it could make you even more awdwark if your not used to it. Use 'you' and 'me'? I wonder who could use them when talkin to a viet in viet...not me of course.
Have you guys ever forgot the meanin of a word in viet when you know exactly what it means in english? I have, many times. That's when I mix viet and english together.
Maybe your thinkin that muh viet ish terrible...no? Please tell me I'm not the only one who sometimes forget the meanin of english words in viet...
btw I'm viet and I have been speakin viet for over 15 yrs.

 

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

Well, your Vietlish is less terrible than your English.Please, be more careful in typing, Hiền Hòa.

OK, that's true. I agree. Pure english.

Infact I think it could make you even more awdwark if your not used to it. Use 'you' and 'me'? I wonder who could use them when talkin to a viet in viet...not me of course.
Have you guys ever forgot the meanin of a word in viet when you know exactly what it means in english? I have, many times. That's when I mix viet and english together.
Maybe your thinkin that muh viet ish terrible...no? Please tell me I'm not the only one who sometimes forget the meanin of english words in viet...
btw I'm viet and I have been speakin viet for over 15 yrs.

Please note that writing is different from speaking.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sometimes forget the meanin of english words in viet...

Did you make a mistake in this sentence?

 

[Đặng Hiền Hòa (Vịt)]

Okay, sorry Linh...my english is twice as bad...but cant we use abbreviations(hope I spell it rite,oops right, I'm bad at spelling) here?

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sometimes forgets the meanin of english words in viet...

Did you make a mistake in this sentence?

Thanks, umn, I know what the mistake is.*blush*
I know everyone uses abbreviations...so why cant I?

 

[Đặng Hoàng Vũ (Heyi)]

Hình như "viet" là từ chủ yếu người Việt hải ngoại dùng để thay cho "vietnamese" thì phải (?) có ai biết lý do tại sao không, hay chỉ là thói quen thôi?

 

[Vũ Đàm Linh (Mazerlin)]

I think Viet only refers to the majority of the Vietnamese ( Kinh). Therefore, Vietnamese is a better word. It's only my opinion.

 

[Đặng Hoàng Vũ (Heyi)]

Chắc là không phải thế, vì nhiều khi trong bối cảnh giống hệt nhau mà người VN ở trong nước dùng "Vietnamese" trong khi những người sống ở hải ngoại lâu năm dùng "Viet" - kể cả trong giao tiếp thường ngày, không hề có hàm ý gì về các dân tộc thiểu số hết.

 

[Phạm Thị Hồng Nhung (nhungph)]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sometimes forgets the meanin of english words in viet...

To Đặng Hiền Hòa: At any rate you're far from being the only one who makes grammatical mistakes - I even read + re-read your above sentence several times + didn't find the mistake ^_^

To Mr. Dang Hoang Vu: I figure that 'Viet' is only a short form for 'Vietnamese' (without any condescending connotations). People who are more familiar/comfortable with a language tend to prefer abbreviations to long, bulky words. This is quite understandable, I think, and may explain the fact that Vietnamese people overseas (ie. those living in English-speaking countries) use 'Viet' more often than the average person here in Vietnam.

 

[Đặng Hoàng Vũ (Heyi)]

Fair enuff

 

[Đặng Hiền Hòa (Vịt)]

thought usin viet is alrite? Mabe because I talked to a lotta viets overseas and they kept askin like, 'are you viet?', 'do you speak viet?'.
I dunno you take it so serious...
*hope I didnt make any mistakes this time*