Đoàn Trang
(Ms_Independent)
Điều hành viên
Oprah's one-on-one conversation with former secretary of state Madeleine Albright. Days after the horror that befell New York City and Washington D.C., Oprah asks the highest ranking woman in the history of the U.S. government to help us make sense of the attack.
Its a different world now for us as Americans
O: All right , so we've all heard that-the thing we hear so much is the world has changed forever and that its a different world for us as Americans. What does this mean to u ?
MA: Well , I think it has changed for us in the following way. I think we Americans felt pretty invulnerable when we're here at home. There is that great sense of freedom that we have about wandering around and feeling that our personal freedom is not curtained. And yet we were violated on our own territory in a way that we never have been. The numbers are obviously not evident at the moment but will be, and its a largest number of people that had died given on any day in America history. And that is a huge violation and I think its seared in all our brains and it will in fact change the way we look at things.
And my feeling about this is that in some ways we need to be changed because this is so awful and so many people , innocent people, have suffered and so if we dont change then in many ways their deaths are totally without any vindication.
O: That is exactly what I think.
MA: Yeah.
O: I think if we dont use it as a moment to turn ourselves around, or a moment for some ilumination, then all of these deaths have been in vain.
MA: Right.
O: I see each one of those people as really a sacrafice.
This was tragedy in real time
O: When we had a chance to talk , u said u had seen atrocities around the world, unimaginable. Have u ever seen anything like this?
MA: No, I havent. And the only thing thats even similar to this was when we went to our embassies in Nairobi and Tanzania to see an American building was totally destroyed. But there clearly was not this kinda loss of live. And clearly that was nobody-ev-nobody's ever seen -on television-this thing happen.
O:Thats right. Thats right.
MA: I mean that was what was so stunning was that ur watching one thing and then the worse thing happens so nobody's even seen that. And nothing like this has ever happened.
O: And I think we certainly havent-hasnt happened-I mean I think-often think now these days of u knowSarajevo, u know, Bosnia , other places where there have been atrocities. But neither did they have the communication to connect them to it as constantly as we have. So-
MA: Well , part of what's happened, which is kinda an evolution of information ,clearly horrible things happened in WWII and the excuse there was that basically people didnt know it.
O: Right.
MA: U knew it later. And as far as what happened in Somalia or Rwanda, u didnt see it immediately but there were pictures soon after. In Sarajevo, again u didnt actually see the killing and the dying, but there was a great immediacy with what u did see and when u-there were more vivid pictures of horrible things that we got-on television. Actually-the Vietnam war was also something that came to our living rooms. This was tragedy in real time.
Its very important that we invest in America.
O: How do we know and process the uncertainty, the fear , the anxiety, that not knowing what comes next? How do we do that ?
MA: Well , I think that the only way to-I'm- the answer is I'm not sure. But I think the only way to do this is we determine that we not going to let this stop us. And this , Oprah is the question of balance that Im having with the hard time myself, is I find it hard to be having a relative normal day while there are people wandering the street-
O: Right.
MA:-of-New York-
O: Yes.
MA: -with photographs saying " Have u seen my brother " or father or husband or something. And yet I know that if we dont get back to some normal way of life , the terrorists will have won.
O: Thats right.
MA: And so the question is how to balance that. And thats part of the processing aspect of this.
O: That even u going through.
MA: Right.
O: I feel better knowing that even u are going through, cuz so am I. I mean every show that I do that isnt related to it- like how Im gonna do that? How Im gonna do that when they are pulling bodies out? How- I think we all have that in some way.
MA: I mean I feel awful about having conversations u know about other things. And on the other hand if we dont get on with this-
O: They would have won.
MA:-they will have won. And I have been saying that its very important to invest in America. Because we have to show-and I-I mean it in every conceivable way. One of the things they wanted to do was to destroy our economy. And so we cant let our system fall apart. So invest, litterally. The other is to invest in our spirit and value and in each other and in the strength of America. And so thats how I kinda processing this. And then realizing that listening to people that tell their stories-means that they are grieving but we are grieving with them-
O: Yeah , yeah.
MA: -and I think we have to go through that griev process.
O: I believe we do. Cuz otherwise its just held there.
MA: Right.
Its a different world now for us as Americans
O: All right , so we've all heard that-the thing we hear so much is the world has changed forever and that its a different world for us as Americans. What does this mean to u ?
MA: Well , I think it has changed for us in the following way. I think we Americans felt pretty invulnerable when we're here at home. There is that great sense of freedom that we have about wandering around and feeling that our personal freedom is not curtained. And yet we were violated on our own territory in a way that we never have been. The numbers are obviously not evident at the moment but will be, and its a largest number of people that had died given on any day in America history. And that is a huge violation and I think its seared in all our brains and it will in fact change the way we look at things.
And my feeling about this is that in some ways we need to be changed because this is so awful and so many people , innocent people, have suffered and so if we dont change then in many ways their deaths are totally without any vindication.
O: That is exactly what I think.
MA: Yeah.
O: I think if we dont use it as a moment to turn ourselves around, or a moment for some ilumination, then all of these deaths have been in vain.
MA: Right.
O: I see each one of those people as really a sacrafice.
This was tragedy in real time
O: When we had a chance to talk , u said u had seen atrocities around the world, unimaginable. Have u ever seen anything like this?
MA: No, I havent. And the only thing thats even similar to this was when we went to our embassies in Nairobi and Tanzania to see an American building was totally destroyed. But there clearly was not this kinda loss of live. And clearly that was nobody-ev-nobody's ever seen -on television-this thing happen.
O:Thats right. Thats right.
MA: I mean that was what was so stunning was that ur watching one thing and then the worse thing happens so nobody's even seen that. And nothing like this has ever happened.
O: And I think we certainly havent-hasnt happened-I mean I think-often think now these days of u knowSarajevo, u know, Bosnia , other places where there have been atrocities. But neither did they have the communication to connect them to it as constantly as we have. So-
MA: Well , part of what's happened, which is kinda an evolution of information ,clearly horrible things happened in WWII and the excuse there was that basically people didnt know it.
O: Right.
MA: U knew it later. And as far as what happened in Somalia or Rwanda, u didnt see it immediately but there were pictures soon after. In Sarajevo, again u didnt actually see the killing and the dying, but there was a great immediacy with what u did see and when u-there were more vivid pictures of horrible things that we got-on television. Actually-the Vietnam war was also something that came to our living rooms. This was tragedy in real time.
Its very important that we invest in America.
O: How do we know and process the uncertainty, the fear , the anxiety, that not knowing what comes next? How do we do that ?
MA: Well , I think that the only way to-I'm- the answer is I'm not sure. But I think the only way to do this is we determine that we not going to let this stop us. And this , Oprah is the question of balance that Im having with the hard time myself, is I find it hard to be having a relative normal day while there are people wandering the street-
O: Right.
MA:-of-New York-
O: Yes.
MA: -with photographs saying " Have u seen my brother " or father or husband or something. And yet I know that if we dont get back to some normal way of life , the terrorists will have won.
O: Thats right.
MA: And so the question is how to balance that. And thats part of the processing aspect of this.
O: That even u going through.
MA: Right.
O: I feel better knowing that even u are going through, cuz so am I. I mean every show that I do that isnt related to it- like how Im gonna do that? How Im gonna do that when they are pulling bodies out? How- I think we all have that in some way.
MA: I mean I feel awful about having conversations u know about other things. And on the other hand if we dont get on with this-
O: They would have won.
MA:-they will have won. And I have been saying that its very important to invest in America. Because we have to show-and I-I mean it in every conceivable way. One of the things they wanted to do was to destroy our economy. And so we cant let our system fall apart. So invest, litterally. The other is to invest in our spirit and value and in each other and in the strength of America. And so thats how I kinda processing this. And then realizing that listening to people that tell their stories-means that they are grieving but we are grieving with them-
O: Yeah , yeah.
MA: -and I think we have to go through that griev process.
O: I believe we do. Cuz otherwise its just held there.
MA: Right.
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